What You'll Discover in this Episode:
Join Pastor Jeff and Pastor Gregory Kirk. Greg serves as the Executive Director of the United Gospel Rescue Mission of Poplar Bluff, Missouri.
Our prayer is that you will learn who the United Gospel Rescue Mission is, what we do, and how you can connect with us and help us continue to serve the broken lives of men and families in Butler County, and the surrounding communities through your financial donations as well as your acts of mercy, compassion given out of love for Jesus Christ.
In addition, learn how the sufficiency of God's Word is available to minister to the down and out community.
Resources:
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Great content! Super high-quality! Keep it up! 🙂
I was very encouraged by this podcast! I have personally been part of Christian recovery programs that used the Word to bring about change in our lives. As a former addict/alcoholic, I needed Christ in my life to help me make the deep rooted changes that needed to occur to break the addiction cycle. I still find so much joy in helping others find their way out of addiction and believe fully in 2Cor 1:4 🙂 The more churches understand that we need help and that addiction touches the lives of everyone in some way, the healthier it will be.
This was another informative pod cast, it was interesting to hear how Pastor Gregory described Christian counselors and biblical counselors, and how we can easily think we are biblical counselors just because we a few scriptures in there but in reality we don’t give the credit for the change to God we give it to ourselves and boast about how we did the change but in reality we didn’t do the change. It is the work of the Holy Spirit that changes us. I like how he reminds us that the heart is desperately wicked, and can be deceiving. Biblical counselor strictly believes the Bible is sufficient for everything. It was interesting to hear Pastor Gregory talk about how he ministers to those seeking help from rescue missions and how its a open door to lead people to Christ or to help them to open up their hear to the Lord.
Awesome insights from Pastory Gregory Kirk!
I really thought it was amazing how the Lord opened his eyes to see the unbiblical nature of the counseling he was doing. These programs magnify self (which much of the world does today in general) and celebrates personal strength to obtain victory which goes against what the Word of God says; namely, that we are dependent upon God for victory. We have victory in Christ and are made strong by His indwelling Spirit! And the Bible is sufficient as our guide to get there.
I also loved how Pastor Greg reflected on how he came to this truth (something we could all do as well); that his personal change came about from being saved by Jesus Christ and getting into the church (not a program). At that point, our lives change for the better as we learn to follow Jesus and give our lives as a sacrifice to God for His glory!
It was great to hear what the Lord is doing in other parts of the country. Pastor Kirk’s testimony was encouraging. I liked his emphasis on counseling being discipleship. Helping those who don’t know Christ is evangelism. My favorite part of the interview was when Pastor Kirk said, “My children know how to work with people who are down and out because they were raised in the rescue mission work”. What a testimony of right parenting! He and his wife raised their children teaching them that life is about helping the hurting people around you and now as adults, they are doing that in their own churches and communities. I also appreciated the comment that it is not about programs, but about the Lord. Again we are reminded that our responsibility in helping others is to always point them to Jesus.
This podcast was very timely for me. I spent time this past week speaking with the college age son of a friend and listening to him explain to me his reasons for studying psychology in college. He kept telling me that he would essentially be a biblical counselor, but with a psychology background so that he could reach the unsaved. I had a chance to speak to him a little about the sufficiency of the Word and what Biblical counseling actually is. It is still amazing to me that Christian colleges are teaching their students that integration of psychology into counseling is biblical. He seemed to think that psychology was the real work of counseling and the bible was the backup that you would use to throw in the occasional Scripture to keep the counsel “Christian”. This podcast is such a powerful testimony of the sufficiency of God’s Word to counsel the lost. The addition of psychology is just not necessary for counseling.
I agree with you Sherra that this is a ‘timely Podcast’, to know that people are still wasting time believing in the teachings of psychology/ human theories in the college but I believe that in the fulness of time, God in His Sovereignty will open their eyes to see and such persons will come to themselves like Pastor Kirk and have a great turnaround in Jesus Name, Amen. Thanks for talking to your friend about the Sufficiency of the Scriptures and counseling God’s way.
We will continue to tell the world about the Sufficiency of the Scriptures and counseling God’s way (Isaiah 9:6; 2 Timothy 3:16-17).
2 Timothy 2:16 But shun profane and idle babblings, for they will increase to more ungodliness.
Pastor Kirk was open about giving “counseling” to anyone who is open to it hoping to use it as a witnessing tool to bring them to Christ. This matches what we have learned as CCU students when we think of “pre-counseling.” We can use this ministry as a way to build up the body, but also as a tool to add people to the body of Christ. Unfortunately, we would be turning away many people who are close to Salvation if we were to turn away people who have troubles and by God’s Grace looking for help from a Biblical point of view. I personally try to stick to what Pastor Jeff has said in the past, that counseling time and ministry can be reserved for people who are already attending the church I serve at… because the teaching of the Word can answer or minister to them in most of their situations. However, if we were to hold a hard and fast rule that we only Counsel Christians, then we would be rejecting the opportunity to evangelize and fulfill the Great Commission.
I think you show wisdom in keeping your counseling open to others. It is so beautiful to me the way that God uses counseling to bring people to himself. The world is hungry for real help. So much of what we see in the world is vague and lacking in concrete truth, people, though they claim to be free are like ships with no anchor to hold on to.
Thanks for your response to this week’s Podcast and I agree with you that ‘Pastor Kirk was open about giving “counseling” to anyone who is open to it hoping to use it as a witnessing tool to bring them to Christ.’.
Pastor Kirk’s sincerity overwhelmed me, and I have resolved to utilize every opportunity to be a blessing to the world around me for Christ.
Colossians 3:23 And whatever you do, do it heartily, as to the Lord and not to men,
Great point Alejandro. I feel the same way. We have been given a church right before our eyes to steward and we can operate in our gifting. We want to be faithful with that. Similarly to a family, or spouse, this has already been given, so we are to take care of it well. As Chuck used to say “stay in our lane.” But I believe along with you, that whoever comes to us for counsel- “IS” in our lane.
All believers are called share the gospel, and what an opportunity when they come right to us! They may be thinking they are coming for one thing, but Lord help us to give them the one thing: “Leading them to the way the truth and the life!”
So true! I have been in recovery for many years, and it is that ministry that I have seen so many people come to Christ thru their recovery and seeing their need for the Lord. They were able to see that “church people” have problems too and they are not alone!
I enjoyed this podcast since Pastor Kirk ministers to those who turn to their local rescue missions for help. I have a personal connection to rescue missions since my grandfather accepted Christ at the Bakersfield Rescue Mission. He had abandoned his family to serve the idol of alcohol and he traveled across country always stopping into a rescue mission when he was hungry. He told me that before you could receive a meal, you were led to the sanctuary to hear the gospel. Finally, one day he was tired of running from God and gave his life over to Christ. He served him until he passed away several years ago. I agree with Pastor Kirk evangelism is so essential when ministering to the homeless, drug, or alcoholics. You never know when their hearts will be open to receive Christ. The word of God is sufficient to counsel anyone at any time. My grandfather is a perfect example that Christ is in the business of making all things new (2 Cor. 5:17).
Kathy, thank you for sharing about your grandfather. It is stories like his that encourage me as I share the gospel, knowing that I may be one in a long line of people sharing the truth with a person until they are ready to stop running.
That is an awesome God story! What a testimony of God’s love toward your grandfather and your grandfather’s faithfulness in serving Him. I would imagine your grandfather’s faith has had an effect on your life as well. I agree with Pastor Kirk as well about evangelism being essential in ministering to those who don’t know Christ. Hope is only found in Jesus.
I agree with you Kathy I believe the Word of God is sufficient to counsel anyone at anytime, God loves all his children and he accepts us just as we are and it’s thru His gospel that he reaches our hearts and minds and gets us to accept him as our lord and savior. The Word of God never returns void it is even heard to death ears and eventually is reached thru the Spirit. God reaches us at our lowest points some times.
Wow! What an amazing real life testimony! Praise the Lord.
I love that the priority was on each person receiving Christ first, and the physical needs were met afterwards. Shows the correct order of importance as Jesus talked about: “Do not labor for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to everlasting life, which the Son of Man will give you, because God the Father has set His seal on Him.” John 6 : 27
Thank you for sharing this story and bringing glory to God and His word!
So true! I have been in recovery for many years, and it is that ministry that I have seen so many people come to Christ thru their recovery and seeing their need for the Lord. They were able to see that “church people” have problems too and they are not alone!
Hey Kathy!
So cool to hear of a first hand account of how this ministry has impacted the lives of unbelievers. When we minister in this way to the hurting and poor, we act as the hands and feet of God, doing His work. The loving hand of Jesus was extended out to your grandfather everywhere he went! And in turn, affected not only his own life but those of his family after him.
May we continue to show the love of Christ to everyone we meet for their good and His glory!
“As for you, brothers, do not grow weary in doing good”
2 Thessalonians 3:13
I really like how they strive to convey that if they put their faith in Jesus Christ for forgiveness, then they are a made new and The old life is forgiven and gone. “We may choose to serve the flesh, but we do not have to live that way.”
I like their therapy approach that until an addict is thinking correctly, his actions will continue to cause him failure and heartache. It is evident that their goal is to see men recover, and not return to their old lifestyle. and that they want to assist them in finding victory in Christ, and living a new life full of Joy.
I like how they provide a structured program that will prepare them to re-enter society as responsible citizens and also by teaching them the importance of completing tasks and being responsible.
Thanks Josh for your reflections on this week’s Podcast (if they put their faith in Jesus Christ for forgiveness, then they are a made new and the old life is forgiven and gone); which is in line with Scriptures (2 Corinthians 5:17-18 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new. Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation,). This is the experience of Pastor Gregory Kirk that he’s sharing with us and truly, God has called us all to the ministry of reconciliation.
Pastor Gregory Kirk is on fire with this ministry of reconciliation and we must be ignited to perform this ministry of reconciliation in Jesus Name, Amen.
Praise God for ministries like this! It is so encouraging to consider the fruit of faithful ministry. Each person who comes to Christ, each transformed life, each victory is going to last forever. There is nothing more worthwhile any of us can do with our lives than to labor in the Kingdom of God.
The most intriguing thing about this week’s podcast has to do with how Pastor Greg’s words sound very similar to the biblical counseling resources CCU students have to read.
The resources of the philosophy of the world were put together by men, using man as a resource, with the end effect of exalting self at the end. In addition, cognitive behavioral therapy requires man as the medium to change himself. These worldly principles contradict the truth of the Word of God. God designed the Holy Spirit to through the Word of God to change us and in the end let God be the one to receive the glory and credit for the transformation in the believer’s life.
As far as labels, the new labels we are supposed to identify as are “new creations” under 2 Corinthians 5:17.
Amen Josiah!
I have the same thoughts as you. Yes, it’s true that man’s psychology seems intuitive and appealing to the mind but is flawed at best because it’s end goal is to shape a person to believe they have some innate power within themselves to be tapped for self improvement. The result is a purely humanistic mindset that promotes self-“everything”.
As believers, we know that this is no healing at all. Instead, we need to let the healing words of God flow out of our lives into the world around us so as to be those faithful servants, doing His work!
“Heal me, O Lord, and I shall be healed;
save me, and I shall be saved,
for you are my praise.”
Jeremiah 17:14
I agree, Josiah. It’s fascinating to see the same principles repeated in different contexts; to me, it is confirmation that what we’re hearing is biblical truth. When we’re all on the same page it creates a resonance that is completely distinct from the discord we see in the secular world. You mention CBT, but even in such a specific practice there is a wide variety of philosophies and contradictory advice. The absence of truth there is as apparent as the presence of truth is in biblical counseling.
I appreciate the clarification difference between “Christian” and “Biblical Counseling” brought by Gregory Kirk. Not everything labeled as “Christian” deserves the label.
As Kirk accidentally fell into integration (what I call syncretism), we must be careful not to do the same.
The risk of falling into integration/syncretism can happen with anything labeled as “Christian” or “Biblical.” For example, teachers in a Christian school have the risk of starting the day in prayer but have all their lessons follow a secular worldview.
A man asked Jesus, “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?” He answered, “You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the first and great commandment” (Matthew 22:36-38).
The “mind” part is often forgotten. There is a command to love God with all our minds. That is something to consider. We need to study the Bible and think biblically in everything we do.
What a great opportunity for ministry! While most of us don’t live in Missouri, many of us live in cities that have outreach programs or rescue missions similar to the United Gospel Rescue Mission. If any of us are looking for disciples to mentor, these types of ministries are great places to contact!
Often, as Pastor Greg experienced, the ministries in our cities are run by well-meaning Christians who aren’t aware of the dangers of combining secular counseling philosophy with biblical principles. All the more reason for us to get involved! We can speak the truth in love, and bring light into our communities through our service.
You are so right. There are a lot of ministries nationwide and worldwide that we can get involved with. I think it is important to make ourselves aware of the programs or outreach centers that are in our own areas. Even if we don’t participate ourselves… we can point others in the right direction when it comes up. The sad thing is that many of these are “humanitarian” programs that have no Gospel Center. But, that doesn’t mean we can’t bring the Gospel into those places.
Thanks Jeff, was wonderful listening to Gregory’s story about his journey to Christ and the ministry to the homeless and addicts. I especially liked when he talked about the A.A Alcoholic anonymous group and how they are trapped by their addiction, in their meetings they say Hi I’m an alcoholic.
As a follower of Christ I am completely set free from my previous addiction. I am a new creation in Christ. In our discipleship group we care for A.A people who seem to be living in fear of the next drink. But they make no progress beyond their meetings or even move on with their lives. It is a terrible thing to see people trapped.
The A.A people we are working with are actively seeking help, they want to understand who God is.
So we share with them our testimony that Christ has set us free from addiction. That Jesus Christ is God!
Because we live in such as time as this … where the emphasis is put on self more than ever … we must be diligent in pointing people back to the Word and Jesus ~ Who is the Word. We must help people find their identity in who they are in Christ and as a new creation. Praise the Lord that you are set free from your previous addictions and know who you are in Christ!
I agree as Christians we are no longer our old self, we are not defined by our mistakes, our addictions, old things have past we are a new creation in Christ. To many times you see some Christians who still define themselves by their mistakes , or their addictions, or their Sins. They don’t understand who God is and how we are made new by accepting who God is and that he gave his Son as a sacrifice for our sins at the cross and we are made new and all sins are washed away.
Wow! What an encouraging message from Pastor Jeff and Pastor Gregory. I appreciate how Pastor Gregory shared his journey and how the Lord molded his understanding of counseling. I can relate as my undergraduate degree is in human development. We often use the DSM-V When writing papers or working with the preschoolers. I am so thankful to have my eyes opened through my classes at Calvary University.
I agree with Pastor Gregory in regards to how people will view themselves as a Biblical counselors, but are just supplementing scripture into man’s theories or understandings. As we continue to grow in our understanding of scripture, I pray others will also have their eyes opened to the differences and understand how scripture is sufficient in all areas of our life.
I am truly encouraged after listening to this podcast and so thankful how the Lord continues to grow in our walk to serve others!
I agree with you, Autumn! We are truly blessed to have Calvary University to esteem the scriptures as our primary source in the way we ought to live for God. Christ is our Wonderful Counselor and desires to heal anyone with a broken heart, remove habitual sins and, on top of that, make us new in HIm. What a Wonderful God we serve!
True Autumn, it’s such an encouraging message from Pastors Jeff and Gregory Kirk on caring for men who, through circumstances of life, have fallen through the cracks of society, knowing that it’s only through the cleansing power of our Lord Jesus Christ that men can truly be free and teaching them how to find Christ and have Him hold an active place in their hearts. May God help us to impact our world for Christ in Jesus Name, Amen.
Acts 4:12 Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”
John 8:36 Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed.
Thanks Autumn for your comment, I was encouraged to and challenged myself to reach out to those in need in my community.
I just felt a call to be more willing to take a step of faith and let God do the rest.
He has work for us to do for him.
“For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.” Ephesians 2:10
This is an incredible podcast! It was so helpful!
Mr. Kirk was a true example of serving the Lord with faithfulness and joy. It blessed me to hear such a pertinent life testimony of all that we have been learning.
Some of the impactful principles he mentioned were.
“True change happens at the foot of the cross ”
“The Bible is sufficient.”
“You are a new creation.”
Integration is about what “I ” can do. That isn’t biblical.
I love that in the rescue mission- they call it a ” get your life together program. ” So that they don’t disclude anyone who wants help. Mr. Kirk’s goal is ” I want to make sure each one of them knows the Lord.” I pray for that same heart.
It was touching to hear him say Christ is the answer. No one can change without Him and the work of the Spirit.That’s where he received change- No through a program.
Biblical counseling is discipleship.
Everyone can get counseling even if it is the form of evangelism.
The heart of working with people where they are is a refreshing outlook. Many of the guys have never had anyone say they love you.
A practical encouragement was that you can see change and recovery when a counselee’s becomes thankful.
Hi Hannah!
I agree with you that this message was such a blessing to listen to as it’s a powerful testimony to all we have been learning. I was so encouraged to listen to how he is living out what the Lord has called him to do in his life and made a shift in his belief system as he drew closer to the Lord.
I love how how he wants to make sure everyone knows the Lord. This is the great commission being lived out. I have to admit that I felt a little convicted as I am not making sure everyone knows the Lord that I encounter. It’s something that I want to change in my life and this was so encouraging to me so I can make that change.
Hannah:
Yes, integration is definitely about what the individual “I” can do. That is far from biblical.
I decided to look up the “Serenity Prayer” for myself.
God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
Courage to change the things I can,
and Wisdom to know the difference.
It verified what Kirk alluded to. The prayer is more self-focused than I thought.
Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serenity_Prayer
Wow. I have never realized how many things are influenced by that “self-focus” and “self-saving” mentality. There are probably lots of common or well-known prayers, quotes etc. that carry that mentality.
Another one that comes to mind is the very commonly referenced “God helps those who help themselves.” Unfortunately, even though I think the idea of personal surrender and humility before God will bring God’s help to you. Ultimately, the answer isn’t in “trying-harder” or “helping yourself” but falling before God for His help and learning to apply His word by His Spirit.
To hear the words from a former clinical counselor-turned biblical counselor is definitely something else. Pastor Greg admitted that the counsel that he was giving before sounded Christian, but it was not biblical. Everything came to a standstill when he said to himself, “Hey I’m not really biblical.”
God designated His Holy Spirit and the truth of the entirety of the Word of God to be the agents in transforming a man’s life. When verses of the Word of God are used only to supplement and support the theories of man, the verses are unintentionally used out of context from the original intended purpose of such verses from the Word of God.
Hannah, your comment on Biblical Counseling, is discipleship also stood out to me. When Christians take the time to teach others how the scriptures can be relevant in their lives, it takes time and dedication to minister to people. Many churches are missing the element of discipleship. Believers who are not discipled can become isolated and susceptible to the many winds of doctrine that come their way.
I agree with you Hannah that it’s an incredible Podcast by Pastors Jeff and Gregory Kirk, especially knowing that, Pastor Gregory Kirk can have a remarkable turnaround and begin to genuinely counsel men God’s way, caring for those coming out of prison, and those who due to addictions, broken family situations, job loss, life problems and wounds, pointing them to Jesus Christ and making them know that they can still find a place of love, care and a chance for a new life in Christ Jesus
John 6:37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out.
John 1:12-13 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
Thanks Hannah really liked the impactful principles you mentioned in your comment.
“Some of the impactful principles he mentioned were.
“True change happens at the foot of the cross ”
“The Bible is sufficient.”
“You are a new creation.”
It’s so exciting to see the power of God in action through his word and at the cross in peoples lives!
Awesome Podcast by Pastor Jeff and Pastor Gregory Kirk that’s quite revealing, especially to know that people could think that they are Biblical counselors and yet not operate in the sufficiency of the Bible but integrate human theories in their counseling activities.
Jeremiah 17:9 “The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked; Who can know it?
2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.
I thank God for the ‘United Gospel Rescue Mission’ that involves five Pastors that came together after a local revival and began to pray about what to do with the derelicts and drunk men who were roaming around the train depot and the main streets in Poplar Bluff. The ‘United Gospel Rescue Mission’ is serving the broken lives that enter their Mission door daily and currently taking care of the men who, through circumstances of life, have fallen through the cracks of society, those coming out of prison, and those who due to addictions, broken family situations, job loss, life problems and wounds can still find a place of love, care and a chance for a new life. The United Gospel Rescue Mission does this through their one-year residential New Life program that offers hope and healing to those men caught in the throes of alcohol or drug addiction. It is only through the cleansing power of our Lord Jesus Christ that men can truly be free. The United Gospel Rescue Mission teaches them how to find Christ and have Him hold an active place in their hearts and the program is free, all men are expected to complete daily tasks during their stay, thus training them to find employment, and become citizens that are grateful and successful.
In addition to my appreciating Pastor Gregory Kirk’s sincerity, my takeaway from this Podcast is that we must be true to ourselves and duly repent immediately we find the truth in the Word of God, never again integrating human theories with Biblical counseling – Only Jesus can save and mend broken hearts/ lives.
John 8:32 And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”
Hi Esther!
I agree that it’s hard to be a biblical counselor without operating with the understanding the sufficiency of the Bible. I have found that many good hearted people believe that they are following the Lord but still integrating man’s theories into practice. I know that I didn’t understand how conflicting this was until I started at CCU and I am so thankful for the teachings so I can fully rely on scripture. This message was very encouraging and it was a powerful testimony of how the Lord guides us on His path so we can reach people in every situation.
The failure to focus on the Scriptures is not limited to counseling.
Some years ago, I ran a small bible college. We brought in a teacher from a Christian entrepreneurial organization to teach a class called “Christian entrepreneurship.” I was excited to see the large enrollment that included a few Muslims. I sat in on the lessons but soon discovered that the teaching was effectively secular. The teacher sprinkled a few Bible verses that didn’t add any substance. Biblical business principles from Genesis 23, Nehemiah, and Proverbs were never mentioned.
Integration can happen with anything labeled as “Christian __________.” A lot of people advertising themselves as a “Christian ________ or a “Biblical ________” operate on their own theories, secular wisdom, and integration.
Individually, we must be careful to maintain a biblical world view and the sufficiency of Scripture in everything we do.
Hearing these words from Pastor Gregory himself adds that much more to the already solid credibility of the Word of God. Pastor Greg having gone through seminary and then pursuing a master’s degree in clinical counseling thought that the counsel he was giving away was biblical counseling. The best of the type of counsel he at that time gave was human theory that had a splash of the Word of God to at least make it seem Christian. His counsel did not rely on the fundamental truths of the Word of God.
Now after having received a doctorate in biblical counseling, Pastor Gregory can confidently say that he did not do biblical counseling. He relies wholly on the sufficiency of the Word of God and the transforming power of the Holy Spirit. Just like you said, only Jesus can truly free the broken wandering soul.