What You'll Discover in this Episode:
Pastor Jeff interviews Pastor Cody King of Redemption Calvary in Commerce City, CO. The topic in this episode is forgiveness verses reconciliation.
Conflict resolution depends on the work of the Holy Spirit in you and through you. They discuss the life of David as he had the fear of the Lord and desired to be in the will of God when he was in conflict with Saul. David chose not to kill Saul and they didn’t reconcile because there was no repentance in Saul’s heart. David had humility in the conflict resolution.
The will of God will not be found in pride. Desire to resolve the conflict is born from a humble heart. Extend forgiveness to others as Jesus forgives us on our worst day.
Pastor Cody says it's important to identify where the person is emotionally when someone is seeking biblical counseling. What the person does with the emotion is important and by understanding this, it can help them grow in Christ. Having a humble heart can be the deciding factor in reconciliation and forgiveness.
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We can rejoice to know that when we run into problems and trials that they help us to develop endurance. And endurance develops our strength of character, and character strengthens our confident hope of salvation, so we must let the Holy Spirit guide our lives so that we don’t do what our sinful nature craves. The sinful nature wants to do evil, which is just the opposite of what the Spirit wants. And the Spirit gives us desires that are the opposite of what the sinful nature desires. These two forces are constantly fighting each other. But since we are living by the Spirit, we must follow the Spirit’s leading in every part of our lives. we must not become conceited, provoking one another or be jealous of each other.
I want to share how I agree with that first observation of yours. These trials and problems help us develop endurance just as you said. I am glad that Pastor Cody and Pastor Jeff also touched on this when they spoke of David and Saul’s relationship. All the issues eventually made David a more godly man even though it was troublesome and hurtful for him. I want to have that in perspective when I am having a hard time someone so that I look for the sanctifying work of the Spirit through these interpersonal trials.
“It’s important to identify where the person is emotionally when someone is seeking biblical counseling.” Absolutely. One of the things I know about myself is that I am quick to make observations and evaluations and it is at once a blessing and a curse. Once I’ve made an evaluation or decision about someone it can be extremely difficult to approach future discussions with an open mind. My tendency is to come to the conversations with some amount of bias.
The company where I work is in essence a service business, and our leadership team has spent a great deal of time speaking about a number of elements involving the “customer experience”. One of those desired qualities is empathy, the idea of walking in someone else’s shoes. “Identifying where someone else is emotionally” is another way to say it, perhaps a better way to say it. I note that one of the Scripture references listed here is Galatians 5 and in that passage there are several beautiful verses. Thirteen, which encourages us to serve one another; fourteen for us to love others as ourselves; sixteen to walk in the Spirit and then verses twenty-two through twenty-six that calls us to live out the fruit of the Spirit.
I am grateful for this teaching – it is exactly what I need to hear right now. The work I need to do by the power of His Spirit in me is to put it into practice. I need to be reconciled to Christ so I can be reconciled to others, and I need to be willing to be in that “place” every moment.
I have learned so much through the course “Interpersonal Relationships” about conflict resolution. I always thought of Matthew 18 as being the guideline for how to handle conflict but what I see now is that there is so much more to it. A key scripture that Pastor Cody pointed out was Romans 12:18 (not 21 as he mentioned) “If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone.” This means so many things. It could be overlooking an offense, it could be talking about how you think about the offense, it could be how you react after an offense. This is because the only person we can control is ourselves. I could definitely relate to how they spoke about humility going hand in hand with reconciliation. It is humility that will lead us to confess and repent of an offense. We need to have a humble heart in order to be able to seek the will of God for our lives and when we are humble we will seek also for reconciliation with others.
So true the best way to reconcile a relationship is through humility. The only person we are able to control is ourselves. So that means we can only be reconciled with another if they are willing to forgive and humble themself too.
It’s always interesting to me how God times things so that He hits you with the same message repeatedly until you get what He is trying to teach you. Recently God put something on my heart that was discussed in this week’s podcast with Pastor Cody King. Although it was regarding evangelism, I believe the principles are still the same for anything else.
The message was that as long as you are pridefully attempting to defend your ego, you can’t really love another person as God desires you to. When we are letting our pride get in the way, we are yielding to our flesh rather than to God and His Word and we are putting ourselves on the throne of our lives rather than our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
In Philippians, we are told to “esteem others better than ourselves”. As Christians, we need to reach the point where we no longer have anything in us that is left to defend. The late Dr. Chuck Missler made the comment in his book, THE WAY OF AGAPE, that, “we want Jesus to be our life and not just in our life”. I believe this is what Pastor King was talking about when he said that we, “need to walk in humility”. Biblical humility can’t be faked. It can only be produced through the power of the Holy Spirit.
So many good truths in your writing. We have to remain humble to truly be used by the Lord and faithful to His calling.when pride is guiding us and a desire for us to be on the throne rather than God our service is in vain.
Hi Kevin-
You’re so right about this, “…as long as you are pridefully attempting to defend your ego, you can’t really love another person as God desires you to.” We hear (and struggle with ourselves) so often, even in the Christian community, that defending ourselves is necessary. Depending on the context, it might be. But often, it’s as Paul the Apostle says in 1 Corinthians 6:7, “Now therefore, it is already an utter failure for you that you go to law against one another. Why do you not rather accept wrong? Why do you not rather let yourselves be cheated?”
Wow. Amazing Kevin!
Thank you for sharing. That is really amazing revelation from the Lord.
I have tossed around ideas or thought something similar to this, but have never put it into actual words.
You are absolutely right , if we are walking in pride, it becomes a wall; a barrier. We cannot truly love when we are protecting ourselves from being hurt. It is what can keep us from truly loving someone. Because ultimately pride is concerned with self.
I never really realized that what I am doing often when I don’t share with someone about Christ or stand for the truth, is because I am defending my ego. Wow. I need to be willing to let my ego be hit. I need to let it die, because loving someone is biblically so much more important than me being comfortable or built up in my ego. So insightful.
Wow. Such an awesome podcast. So much insight and clarity. Thank you.
One of the biggest takeaways for me was that sometimes a lack of obedinence stems from a lack of biblical knowledge or literacy. I find this often times is the case, whether in my life or with fellow believer’s . It is not always just that we are disobedient ( though we are not strangers to that) , it may be a total gap in our thinking of what is actually right and true and biblical.
That really hit the nail on the head for me. And stirs up a heart of discipleship . It makes me desire to press in more as well. It gives us grace and understanding and a heart to bear with and teach. As well as learn.
The topic of forgiveness vs. reconciliation was also refreshing . I appreciated the clarity that as much as depends on us we should live and dwell peaceably with others. Yet, many times there are others on the opposite end of the relationship who are not willing to be friends even. God’s heart is complete reconciliation and even closeness so it is good that it may be our desire. However, there may not be a reciprocation within the human experience, from the other person involved.
If this is the case we should not feel pressured or responsible to have a ” best friend” in them. Simply, to do our part and let them be entrusted to God. I have family members and friends in my life who I can really apply this concept to. Again Very helpful and thank you.
The idea of biblical illiteracy breaks my heart every time I think of it. I have also seen how sometimes people in our churches are acting in the flesh or sinfully because they simply don’t know any better yet. I am sure the Spirit convicts them, but they may pass that off as having a guilty conscience or hesitation to prioritize themselves in a interpersonal issue. It spurs me on just as if spurs you on towards further discipleship and teaching. Being a pastor, it convicts me to be sure I am not only teaching well, but teaching broadly with a plan to get as many people through as much of the bible as possible. This mission will eventually lead to better relationships throughout the church.
A great podcast on conflict resolution
We see Saul used manipulation with David to get him to do what he wants. Saul was full of pride. A person has to walk in humility if they want conflict resolution. Pride will never bring healing.
It is important when counseling someone through conflict resolution, that we see where they are emotionally and to find out what they do with that emotion this shows if the way they are handling it is right or wrong. It won’t help them if you don’t connect emotionally with them.
Secondly, are they Literate in the Bible. What does the Bible say? Will they be obedient to scripture? Do they have a humble heart to receive the correction and make a change?
It’s courageous when you’ve done the wrong to go and apologize to the person and bring peace.
The heart reveals what going on in the inside. We can’t move forward until the sin is confessed. It’s not just a matter of opinion but a matter of humility.
Romans 12:18 says, “If it is possible, as much as depends on you, live peaceably with all men.”
Growing up, I have sought to live at peace with everyone I come into contact with. Of course, this is not a guarantee because the individuals we meet have some part to play in this as well. I enjoyed this interview because it dealt with the reality of conflict.
I have met Christians that believe that all conflict is “from the devil”. Others believe that if there isn’t complete reconciliation, the offense (sin) remains. It was refreshing to hear Pastor Cody’s teaching on 1 Samuel 26. It takes two people to cause a conflict and it takes two people for complete reconciliation. Also, if two people disagree, that does not mean someone is being sinful.
Humility is needed by both parties in order for a peaceful resolution to be reached. No matter how right or “wrong-ed” we are, we all will have to stand before Christ and give an account.
Amen David. I’ve had a somewhat recent disagreement with a friend that got out of control. Mischaracterizations began to abound and I felt a bit betrayed. He did as well. I certainly attempted several times to reconcile, but as you said it takes two for full reconciliation. It was (and still is) a difficult thing for me – I had a sense of “if there isn’t complete reconciliation, the offense (sin) remains” – clearly that isn’t always possible, as Pastor Cody addressed. Thanks for your words.
Such a resoundingly true podcast for my life today. I serve on a non-profit board with a founding leader. The leader has displayed an inability to carry the non-profit further forward and is incensed that the board is looking for other leadership. All the while he admits he is incapable of doing the leaderships actions necessary to accomplish the non-profits mission. He is at odds with the board and we are not in harmony with him. It appears there is no human way possible for resolution. As defined by Pastor Cody, he has taken actions that define his pride. With that said, Pastor Cody has equally defined my pride in reaction to the founder. I am guilty. Just today, before hearing this podcast, I crafted an email apologizing for my actions and intent (Please note I did not ask for forgiveness only apology). I asked the founder if he and I could meet with a mediator to process through our personal conflict and see if we can restore peace between us. I did not seek to resolve. I know at this point that it is outside of his human desire. After listening to this podcast I am convicted to do more. I need to seek forgiveness and realize I have made errors, even though leadership decisions are correct. It is time for me to live humility and see if the founder will join me. I think of answering to Jesus of my recent attitude toward the founder and recognize I can must do better for the Lord and for me.
Thank you Jerry for your openness to share your experience right now as we can probably all relate to the situation in some capacity. It’s wonderful and so reassuring when we are going through something and the Lord sends us a message that is perfectly timed. I love those moments. I will pray for you and the founder of your nonprofit. Hopefully there can be some resolution and possibly a differnt outcome than what was thought before 🙂
Thank you so much for your prayer Autumn. It is an unresolved situation. We have both counseled separately with a Pastor trained in Christian mediation. At this point the non-profit director will not yet speak with me. I continue to pray that I can be of God mindedness if the opportunity does arrive. We can forgive each other and find Godly resolution. Thanks again.
It is wonderful to continue to see God at work in our lives. The fact that we can hear God’s direction through a podcast or books that we read for our course work has really been a huge encouragement to be, not to mention, helping me with counseling and teaching.
Jerry-
Psalm 51:17 says, “The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit,
A broken and a contrite heart—
These, O God, You will not despise.”
I can hear the contrition in your post and God knows your humble desire too. I pray that God will grant your request for reconciliation. Your honesty in this post is a reminder to remain to sensitive to the Spirit of God. Sin separates, knowledge puffs up, but love edifies. It is evident to me that you love Christ and your brother. Blessings to you.
This is a great podcast. Forgiveness and reconciliation is a key aspect in our walk with Christ while on this earth. God’s heart is that we forgive one another while also getting along. Great perspective Cody gave about him being a dad desiring that his kids get along with another. But sometimes, it’s not always possible. He cites Romans 12:18,“If it is possible, as much as depends on you, live peaceably with all men.” The lesson here is we can’t control others and their decisions on whether or not to desire reconciliation. However, we can control ourselves and be humble enough to recognize our mistakes or sin and seek forgiveness. The passage goes on to say that we should not avenge ourselves (leave that to the Lord), but that we should go so far as to bless our enemies. On being humble Cody says, “Just the desire to resolve a conflict – that in itself is a godly concept that can only be born out of a humble heart.” It’s the proud person that seeks to pay back his or her enemies. It takes humility (and courage) to restore a rocky relationship. Jesus, as Cody reminds us, forgave us so He commands us to do the same.
The story of David and Saul has been a great lesson for me. David had been running from Saul – who was trying to kill him – and yet when David had the opportunity to end the threat to his life by killing Saul, he submitted to the Lord and refused to do so because he understood Saul was appointed by God and he couldn’t destroy God’s anointed; David couldn’t and wouldn’t be like his enemy, Saul. He showed him mercy. Their relationship wasn’t restored, but David had a clear conscience in the matter.
Tom, I commented on that relationship with Saul an David as well. David submitting to the Lord through the whole series of years is truly inspiring. Yes, it does take courage and humility to restore a relationship that is rocky, even when you may have not been at fault. Jesus tells us to leave our gift at the altar and fix our relationships first before we continue to worship Him, Powerful.
I appreciate the simple practical lessons Pastor Cody drew from David and Saul’s conflict. I have also found that most people see conflict resolution as pretending that the conflict never happened and going right back to being “best friends.” But, that isn’t it at all. As Pastor Cody pointed out, though there was an apology from Saul, David did not return home pretending that nothing had happened. It would have been foolish to take Saul at his words and place himself in danger again. This illustrates what Pastor Jeff and Cody discussed in the very beginning of the podcast, that forgiveness and reconciliation are not one and the same. Forgiveness is a personal decision while reconciliation takes time to build up trust again between to people being an interpersonal mutual decision. I am sure to remember these things when I am counseling.
Thank you for your comments Alejandro, How true it is that forgiveness and reconciliation are not one and the same. Another person and I had an unresolved conflict.I elected to forgive and it took years to build reconciliation and trust with that person. We had fits and starts. Stops and no communication. But over time we both decided upon forgiveness and work effectively until their was reconciliation. During the period of non-reconciliation we both grew into forgiveness and each became humble toward the other. But not without anger and inhospitable words and thoughts. But over years we eventually came to an interpersonal mutual decision to reconcile. I wish there were more examples of reconciliation. It seems to be getting more and more difficult with rampant Biblical illiteracy. Yet even with literacy it remains very difficult from only human perspective.
Thanks Jerry.
I agree that their aren’t enough examples of this kind of reconciliation happening out there. I think we have been spoiled in the U.S. If anyone is offended or hurt they usually decide to just leave the church all together. Having 20 Christian churches in a single town may actually be a detriment to reconciliation while being useful for the spreading of the Gospel in different methods and styles.
Very true Alejandro. Thank you for pointing out that crucial mistake. It does not help the situation at all to pretend like the hurtful event never took place.
It does take time to build up trust again. Whereas the choice to forgive can be immediate. The working out of that, and reconciliation may be a process. Especially as you said , so as not to continually place oneself in the midst of harm.
Thankful that God takes both sides in to account. He protects the one being harmed and forgives and loves the offender. He understands, and cherishes both people involved.
There is a process that involves boundaries and protection, while taking steps toward reconciliation.
I like that you said that “forgiveness is a personal decision, while reconciliation may take cooperation in both ends. “
While generalizations get us into a great deal of trouble, I would say that over many years my observation is that men are much more likely to have a conflict with a friend or family member and then quickly say it’s not an issue (not a “big deal is more likely) and go right on as if nothing happened. But men are also inclined to let it all build up over time and then explode at a later date. So “pretending the conflict never happened” is a coping mechanism that many men will use, ineffective as it is, when faced with conflict.
Most of us men have a good deal of work to do if our intent is to be Christ-like in the way we handle conflict, how we forgive and reconcile.
I was quite blessed listening to this Podcast on Forgiveness verses Reconciliation.
Pastor Cody King has been pastoring since he was twenty-four years old to date. He’s thirty and has served as a youth pastor and in diverse other capacities, especially in Church planting. In his words, he chose the word redemption because; in the middle of rebranding their Church, he tried to maintain some sought of continuity while being practical in his choice of names. However, the idea of ‘redemption’ came up as he considered one of the major things plaguing our culture as a lack of Biblical knowledge, Biblical literacy and that is followed by a lack of Biblical obedience. So, because of the great number of people living non-Biblical lives; not having Biblical obedience, mostly because they have Biblical illiteracy and at the heart of all of that is the idea of ‘redemption’. Pastor Cody King, being theological in his ways, prayerfully considered ‘Redemption’ as the preferred name.
In agreeing with Pastor Cody King, Pastor Jeff Christianson declares that it lines up with the discussion of this Podcast.
1 Samuel 24:1 Now it happened, when Saul had returned from following the Philistines, that it was told him, saying, “Take note! David is in the Wilderness of En Gedi.”
Pastor Jeff Christianson stated that one of the things God spoke to him about, when Pastor Cody King was ministering in the retreat center, is the topic on ‘Forgiveness verses Reconciliation’ and ‘rebuilding trust’. This was explained in detail especially using the life of David that manifested the fear of the Lord and the will of God and what the will of God is not and what the will of God is; a Faith-filled attitude.
2 Corinthians 5:10-11 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad. Knowing, therefore, the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are well known to God, and I also trust are well known in your consciences.
1 Corinthians 3:13 each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is.
This study really dovetails into this topic of conflict resolution; knowing that we are always facing conflicts and navigating the difficult waters of personal relationships. We desire to be good Godly conflict resolvers, but the important point highlighted by Pastor Cody King … be wise as serpents and harmless as doves (Matthew 10:16); not being naïve, not being foolish, etc
Thank you, Pastor Jeff and Pastor Cody, for this podcast on conflict resolution. I liked the points about taking personal responsibility for how we handle conflict and I can’t control the other person. The example of David and how he chose not to kill Saul and they didn’t reconcile because there was no repentance in Saul’s heart. David had humility in the conflict resolution. The will of God will not be found in pride. Desire to resolve the conflict is born from a humble heart. Extend forgiveness to others as Jesus forgives us on our worst day.
The example by Pastor Cody about having two jugs and one has water (godly) and the other one has gas (destruction) in it. We decide which jug to use in the conflict. This visual is something I am going to remember in my personal life but also as I continue through the Biblical Counseling classes.
Thank you for your insightful comments Autumn. We do have, I have, personal responsibility for my actions even when I cannot control the other person. What a great example of David choosing not to take control and slay King Saul. Instead he looked to God with humility and repentance. How often we/I want control. With thoughts of I will resolve if I can control and it turns out my way. How wrong. God holds the answers to conflict resolution. Thank you for reminding me of the value of the example of two jugs. Lord let me be a water bearer.
Pastor Cody’s quoting of Romans 12:21 is a good reminder about conflict resolution and how we cannot change others’ opinions of a situation, just our own. Like with King David and Saul, David did what was right in the sight of the Lord by not killing Saul, living peaceably with him but not having all things in common with him. David could have done what the world does, which is lash out in anger at Saul for chasing him like a dog, but he chose to let the Lord work the situation out and not go down the path of Saul’s madness with unforgiveness and bitterness.
I agree that we need to remember to allow the Lord to work out our situation and not allow bitterness into our hearts. I know at times, my buttons are pushed and it can be challenging but as we grow closer to the Lord, we can learn to take a deep breath and respond differently.
Ron-
David exhibited a tender heart towards the Lord and even towards King Saul. I believe that his love for God was paramount, a close second might have been his desire to honor his best friend and Saul’s son, Jonathan.
In any case, David showed restraint and remorse towards someone who hated him and wanted him dead. This goes way beyond normal human behavior. David walked in humble obedience to God and this enabled him to endure this conflicted relationship.
David’s compassion could have also come from those times of playing music for the King to ease his depression. He had seen firsthand what bitterness in the heart looks like.
David’s refrain from taking the customary or fleshly action is indeed a great example to us and reminds me personally that I can’t do this out of my own strength or humanity. It is so easy for me to become defensive and combative if I’m operating out of my own “abilities”. I certainly have to rely on the Holy Spirit for guidance and for peace in situations where I feel I’m being attacked or wronged or mis-characterized or, well, the list is long! The good news is Jesus Christ is sufficient for this and all other situations that trouble me. Your comment about David “He chose to let the Lord…” is right on the money, not just for David but for each of us. Praying that we can all remember that.