44: Forsaking Our Wonderful Counselor


⬇️ ⬇️ SCROLL DOWN TO THE COMMENTS! ⬇️ ⬇️

What You'll Discover in this Episode:

If the church is not attentive and vigilant, she can find herself forsaking God as the Wonder Counselor. It can happen subtly; the church can slowly drift away from God by turning to the philosophies and principles of the world.  We need to be watchful and beware of humanistic thinking.  The church needs to always rely on God, His Word and His ways, and seek God as the Wonderful Counselor.  Forsaking God can happen over time, by looking to a method not found in the Bible, a principle gained through secular study and the result is the church becomes self dependent. The church should never be dependent upon itself, the Lord in the midst of the church, guiding lives by His Word, through relationship, is what makes the difference in people's lives.

The Bible proclaims God as the Counselor of our lives: "I will instruct you and teach you in the way you should go; I will guide you with My eye." (Psalm 32:8)  Another word for guide in Psalm 32 is counsel.  God is saying, "I will counsel you with My eye upon you." When the church no longer looks to God as the Wonderful Counselor, it begins turning away from the Word for instructions.  So often, the current trend is to get the instruction and training from human psychology, and add scripture in to make it "Christian".  Psychology, though it claims to be scientific in nature, in reality, has an extremely minor portion of it that is capable of scientific verification.  Psychology is a way to view life and a large portion of psychology is philosophical in nature. God has proclaimed Himself as the Wonderful Counselor, the One who can heal a heart, as well as transform and direct a life.  We must discern between what is from man and what is of God, and keep to God's ways.  There are people within the church that are inviting the church to turn to human reasoning instead of the Word of God. We must remain faithful and dependent on God's Word for instruction in life.  One cannot supplement the Word.  Only God can change a heart and life, and He does that through relationship with Him, and discipleship through His Word.  Christians can be deceived into believing that the Word of God does not hold all the answers to life, and the result is that many are turning to humanistic teachings.  God is calling us to keep to the Word and defend the Word.  Psychology does not belong on the same platform as God's Word.  It is developed by various men, in order to understand and help human life, but it is not inspired by God.  It is not the way God teaches in His Word to change a life.  God's way to change a life, is to bring salvation to the person, and grow them in Christ by the teaching of the scriptures.   "All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work." (2 Timothy 3:16)

The pendulum has swung away from our Wonderful Counselor.  We need to swing the pendulum back to God and His Word.  There is a trend creeping into the church, of not holding to the sufficiency of God and His Word as being supreme.  Let us not follow the ways of men, but seek to pursue God as our Wonderful Counselor.

In this episode Pastor Jeff talks about the dangers of forsaking our Wonderful Counselor.  Leading others away from God's Word and learning the philosophies and principles of the world (Colossians 2:8).  We must keep God in His proper place as Lord over our lives.


Scroll down and leave your comment below!


Highlights

  • What really threatens the church counseling God’s way?
  • The church’s failure to counsel God’s way is our failure to look to the Lord Jesus as the Wonderful Counselor.
  • There are many in the church world today in America that are very religious, but they’ve been forsaking God.
  • It’s sad sometimes to look out in the church world and see people who give all kinds of evidence of loving the Lord and having some confidence in His Word that they’re kind of cozying up to psychological theory.
  • Forsaking God’s Word is even taking place in the evangelical church.

Resources:

  • Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a Child is born,
    Unto us a Son is given;
    And the government will be upon His shoulder.
    And His name will be called
    Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God,
    Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. 
  • Jeremiah 2:13 For My people have committed two evils:
    They have forsaken Me, the fountain of living waters,
    And hewn themselves cisterns—broken cisterns that can hold no water. 
  • John 4:13-14 Jesus answered and said to her, “Whoever drinks of this water will thirst again...
  • Deuteronomy 32:15-18 “But Jeshurun grew fat and kicked;
    You grew fat, you grew thick,
    You are obese!
    Then he forsook God who made him,
    And scornfully esteemed the Rock of his salvation...
  •   Proverbs 28:4 Those who forsake the law praise the wicked,
    But such as keep the law contend with them...

Can I ask a (very) quick favor?

If you’ve gotten any kind of value out of my content, if any of it is a blessing, would you subscribe to The Biblical Counseling Podcast on iTunes (Apple Podcasts) and then leave me a quick rating and review?


Here’s how to do it on your phone in 7 simple steps:


  1. Go to your “Podcasts” app.
  2. Tap the “Search” magnifying glass at the bottom
  3. Type in “The Biblical Counseling Podcast”
  4. Tap the Subscribe button at the top
  5. Scroll down to the “Ratings & Reviews” section
  6.  Tap “5 Stars”
  7. Finally, tap “Write a Review”

Thanks a lot, I really appreciate it!


Subscribe and Download

Are you a subscriber? If not, you’re missing a major opportunity to get practical, actionable advice delivered straight to your device every week. Don’t miss a single episode! Subscribe on iTunes or wherever you listen.

And if you’re really loving the show, we’d be super-grateful if you’d also leave a review on iTunes. That’ll help others find this program so they can benefit too. We read every single review too. Good, bad, or indifferent, we’d love to hear what you think.


Listen on the go! Follow the Biblical Counseling Podcast using your favorite app:

Listen to Stitcher
  • Esther Ambie-Barango says:

    Another great Podcast in which our articulate teacher and Pastor Jeff presented an important topic: ‘Forsaking Our Wonderful Counselor’. He explicitly reviewed the Church, the people of God and the history of how they have forsaken their wonderful Counselor, and how it applies to us today (Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a Child is born, unto us a Son is given; and the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.).
    Pastor Jeff stated that; what really threatens discipleship/ counseling in the Church today, categorizing them into two aspects, with everything else fitting under the two aspects –
    i. Forsaking Our Wonderful Counselor, the Lord Jesus Christ, the Word of God
    ii. Turning elsewhere for counsel for understanding for discipleship for life and Godliness
    The failure of the current Church to counsel God’s way/ Biblically is because of the failure to look to the Lord Jesus as the wonderful Counselor but rather, the Church seems to be drifting from the Lord, disobey/ neglecting God’s Word, opening us up to deception in line with Jeremiah 2:13 (For My people have committed two evils: They have forsaken Me, the fountain of living waters, and hewn themselves cisterns—broken cisterns that can hold no water).
    Deuteronomy 32:15-18 “But Jeshurun grew fat and kicked; You grew fat, you grew thick, you are obese! Then he forsook God who made him, and scornfully esteemed the Rock of his salvation…
    2 Chronicles 12:1- Now it came to pass, when Rehoboam had established the kingdom and had strengthened himself, that he forsook the law of the Lord, and all Israel along with him….
    The state of Israel in the above Scriptures reflect the state of the Church today concerning counseling. It looks like the Church has abandoned God’s Word and have dug themselves cisterns, broken cisterns that can hold no water.
    May God bring us back to the Fountain of Living Waters in line with John 4:13-14 (Jesus answered and said to her, “Whoever drinks of this water will thirst again, but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life.”).
    1 Corinthians 10:11 Now all these things happened to them as examples, and they were written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages have come.
    My take away is that as a Church, we must return to the wonderful Counselor and counsel God’s way without integrating the world into the Word.

    • Autumn D says:

      Esther, I agree that we need to return back to counseling God’s way with using His Word. As we use His word, we will be able to show someone how He is our wonderful counselor. There’s so much comfort as we read in Isaiah 9:6, “For unto us a Child is born, unto us a Son is given; and the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.”

    • Anne Marie Maguire says:

      Hi Esther, enjoyed reading your comment. It is encouraging to stay committed and focused on the true source of godly counsel which is Christ himself, his counsel will become “a fountain of water springing up into eternal life.” I feel blessed to know I can rely on him for wisdom and insight.

    • JoAnn Eagle says:

      Thank you for your post which summarized the podcast’s teaching so thoroughly! This message spurred me on to stay in the “fight” for the purity of God’s counsel in the church. I am surrounded by many striving to mix God’s truths with man’s wisdom. The worldliness of their counsel seems so evident to me, and I thank God for that. May He continue to keep my mind sharp and bless me with discernment, as well as encouraging others away from humanistic philosophies.

    • Stacy Wiggins says:

      The passage in 2 Chronicles 12 is eye-opening. “When Rehoboam had established the kingdom and had strengthened himself, that he forsook the law of the Lord,”. WOW! He established the kingdom, strengthened himself, and then forsook the law of the Lord. What a mirror of today. The church views itself as strong, smart and established, with everything it needs and just like Rehoboam, fails to look at the Word of God.

      • John Eastham says:

        There is a lot of wisdom from Proverbs 30:7-9 that applies here. The general focus is on an individual level, but it is also applicable on a national level.

        Two things I request of You (Deprive me not before I die):
        Remove falsehood and lies far from me; Give me neither poverty nor riches— Feed me with the food allotted to me;
        Lest I be full and deny You, And say, “Who is the LORD?” Or lest I be poor and steal, And profane the name of my God.
        – Proverbs 30:7-9

        When we are rich, we tend to forget where all that wealth really came from God.
        Western countries have abundance and now ask “Who is the LORD?”

        • Bill Hines says:

          Thanks, John, many years ago I chose the previous two verses to guide me in my teaching of the Bible. I think they too are applicable here:
          Every Word of God is tested;
          He is a shield to those who take refuge in Him.
          Do not add to His words
          Or He will reprove you, and you will be proved a liar.

    • Sherra Krabbenhoft says:

      That was a wonderful summary Esther, thank you. This podcast has made me think, what is the way that God is calling us to help return the church to the Wonderful Counselor in our ministry? One way that I have seen God move so many times is through the personal testimonies of previous generations. Stories of people who have chosen to trust God’s sufficiency and have seen the fruit. I have also seen it happen through personal study and counseling. Are there other ways that anyone has seen God move in this way?

      • Bill Hines says:

        I have seen a few Churches begin training their own people in biblical counseling then sharing from the pulpit stories of those who have found healing and blessing from that counsel. It also helps when, as one Pastor put it, “Our Church is not a Church that does biblical counseling, it is a biblical counseling Church.” He was stressing that all their leaders and teachers were trained and biblical counseling permeated the discipleship in the Church.

  • Athena Williams says:

    I love how robust God’s Word is. It’s intimidating to think about engaging in debates about the sufficiency of Scripture – until I remember that I’m not relying on my own arguments. I don’t have to be smart enough or convincing enough; God’s Word can defend itself. I just have to resist fear and speak up. It helps me to remember the importance of the information I have to share – this has a huge impact on so many lives! Informing people about these issues is part of how we engage in fighting the battles before us. The Holy Spirit will open up opportunities, and I don’t want to be too cowardly to step into the ring. I also try to remember that, even if someone is initially hostile to the idea of the sufficiency of Scripture, it might get them thinking and looking into some of this on their own. A lot of believers simply aren’t aware of what’s going on.

    • Autumn D says:

      I agree with you Athena that we need to resist our own fear and speak up in the sufficiency of scripture. It’s important that we stand on God’s authority in His Word and share it with others who need guidance. I know that it will not only bless them, but we will also be encouraged.

    • Hannah Somerville says:

      I love what you said Athena, it is so true “I don’t have to be smart enough or convincing enough; God’s Word can defend itself.”

      I struggle with feeling like I have to have the adequate answers as well, even within the context of the word. Knowing what verse or principle to use when and where can be a struggle. But even here God does not leave us alone. As we rely on Him. He guides through the Holy Spirit. What a gift of His presence and intelligence to know he will help us move through his word and speak it boldly! Like you said it is of utmost importance!

      I am reminded of proverbs 15:13 ” A man has joy by the answer of his mouth,
      And a word spoken in due season, how good it is!”

    • Anne Marie Maguire says:

      Very true Athena it is intimidating engaging in debates defending the sufficiency of Scripture but like you said we must be bold because “He that is in us is greater than he that is in the world.” 1 John 4:4.
      I feel strength coming from Christ to be bold.
      “Yes, be bold and strong! Banish fear and doubt! For remember, the Lord your God is with you wherever you go.” Joshua 1:9.

    • JoAnn Eagle says:

      Athena, your words ministered to me! I am also intimidated to engage in debate over psychology versus the purity of biblical counseling! God’s word IS sufficient, and His grace in our conversations about it is as well. Thank you also for referring to fear. I must admit that I also don’t want to “waste time” over it. This is a selfish way of thinking, isn’t it?! I need to be bold for Jesus, and share His truth whether or not it is convenient or whether or not I feel like it! And yes, if our conversations spur others on toward further study on the matter, perhaps God will guide them to the truth of His counsel alone! Thank you for your transparent post!

    • Stacy Wiggins says:

      I agree Athena, a lot of believers simply aren’t aware of what is going on. I would add to that statement that they are not aware because they do not know the Word. Pastor Jeff talked about the forsaking of the Word being subtle. I believe it is subtle because people are not grounded in the Word. I am so thankful for the roots of Calvary and the verse by verse teaching!

    • Sherra Krabbenhoft says:

      Athena, thanks for sharing. I think most believers can sympathize with what you shared. I love that, as you stated, God’s Word can defend itself. In my experience very few people are ever argued to faith, I always have to remind myself that when I feel like I want to defend what I know to be true. I have found in my life that asking God each moment, “ok Lord, would you have me respond or just listen, and if I respond what do I say”, God has always been faithful to answer and prompt.

    • April says:

      So true! Scripture will speak for itself, the Holy Spirit will indeed reveal to each one what they need to know. We are only the messenger. It is important to always be ready to give an answer because we never know when we are going to be used!

    • Bill Hines says:

      I appreciate all the comments here. I have found that simply speaking the truth in love removes barriers and helps to open a conversation. I also found that those who integrate psychology are sometimes stumped when I ask how the early followers of Christ were able to love and follow Christ faithfully if modern psychology is so very important to Christian growth.

  • April Robbins says:

    This podcast reminds me of Revelation 2:4 where the letter to the church in Ephesus was about denying it’s first love. They were doing so much good, but it was becoming religious, without the passion they first had. Of all the letters, 5 of them were with warnings because the church had taken in false doctrine. This is definitely a warning to us today with how liberal some churches have become and psychology infiltrating the teachings is so dangerous. It is a subtle way that the enemy has drawn us away from the true doctrine that scripture is sufficient and that we need to forsake the ways of the world. There were strong words said to these churches, and in this modern day, we need to heed them greatly.

    • Kathy Yohner says:

      April-The use of Revelation 2:4 is a perfect reminder of what many churches are doing in our world today. Jesus is our Wonderful Counselor who knew us before we were even in our mother’s womb. Why would we not want to turn to Him who knows us so intimately and longs for us to rely on Him for the answers to all of our problems?

    • Josiah Arceo says:

      How true your words are. Integrating psychology and the Bible sounds so attractive because it seems to bring the best of both worlds. However, when you think about it, what is the best that man can add to the Bible that is already complete? They can only guess about what ails the soul and guess even more on the remedy. If treating an illness is to keep the illness at bay and curing an illness is to be freed and purged of the illness, then psychology can only treat the soul while the Word of God cures it.

  • Kathy Yohner says:

    I enjoyed this podcast on” Forsaking Our Wonderful Counselor.” I understand what it is like getting caught up with deception within the church. It always turns out messy and hurtful. What I have learned through these difficult situations is knowing and standing on God’s word is the only appropriate way to walk in a manner that pleases Him. Otherwise, you ultimately “…praise the wickedness of others,” as Proverbs 28:4 states. It is sad to say, but church leadership or Christian friends can lead you astray into believing false teachings. Paul encourages all believers to be like the “Bereans.” We are to test everything by the Word of God. When I take heed to these instructions, God never fails to bring the truth to light. Isaiah 55:11, “So is my word that goes out from my mouth: It will not return to me empty, but will accomplish what I desire and achieve the purpose for which I sent it.”

    • Josiah Arceo says:

      How true your words are. Integrating psychology and the Bible sounds so attractive because it seems to bring the best of both worlds. However, when you think about it, what is the best that man can add to the Bible that is already complete? They can only guess about what ails the soul and guess even more on the remedy. If treating an illness is to keep the illness at bay and curing an illness is to be freed and purged of the illness, then psychology can only treat the soul while the Word of God cures it.

    • Margaret Deherrera says:

      It is so true I agree with you Kathy I also can relate to getting caught up with deception with in the church and also how leaders and christian friends can lead you astray. When I sometimes get caught up in trying to figure things out in my own understanding i always get confused and get lost in myself but when I sit and look at truth in the bible it helps me to get back on course and trusting the only thing that is true and never fails God’s Word. I see how people are when they get sidetracked and seek worldly counsel and start trusting in that it causes much chaos and confusion and doubt but when the seek God’s counsel they are filled with peace and get the right answers they seek.

  • Autumn D says:

    This podcast was so timely as there’s so many churches promoting an expert in psychology to come there to help with the mental illness that is affecting our youth and the rise in suicides in our local school district. The information is all about “self” instead of what we can learn from God’s word. It’s really sad that there’s forsaking God’s Word in the evangelical church and the church as a whole. As mentioned in the podcast, it’s important we remember what was said in Proverbs 28:4, “Those who forsake the law praise the wicked, but such as keep the law contend with them.” I am thankful for the pastors who guide us back to God’s Word.

  • Josiah Arceo says:

    Wow. There is so much that Pastor Jeff covered. The statement that stuck out to me the most was at the end when Pastor Jeff noted that psychology did not come from the the fountain of the truths of Scripture. Psychology came from the minds of men who had no regard for the existence of God and for the veracity of the Scriptures. They came up with a system to define man and his ways. In short, the majority of the teachings of psychology are philosophical and theoretical in nature.

    What I don’t understand is how people today have thought to to believe that the Bible could not provide sufficient and complete counsel to people when through the hand of ministers the Bible has been doing providing counsel for the last 2,000 years. Not just that, the Bible makes claims throughout its contents, that the truth it contains has the power to change the lives of its believers, making them holy and acceptable before the Lord (Romans 12:1-2). The Word of God commands its practitioners to be holy as God is holy (1 Peter 1:16): A task impossible to do without the assisting power of the Holy Spirit.

  • Hannah Somerville says:

    Wow this was a great podcast!

    The most convicting sentence I believe pastor Jeff said was that they ( talking about Israel) “remained religious, but forsook God”. From the outside they looked successful, but it was internally religious, business -minded.

    According to Jeremiah 2:13 Israel got involved in two evils: It says:
    “My people have forsaken Me and dug themselves broken cisterns that can hold no water.”

    There are two issues: Forsaking the wonderful counselor.. and When this is done turning elsewhere.

    In the American Christian Church’s case in the area of counseling, we see that instead of looking to the Lord, they turn to psychological practices and empty quotes.

    It is so sad to not look at the rock of our salvation.

    As biblical counselor’s we need to place our hope and confidence back in the sufficient work of the word of God in the Christian’s life. As Jeff says “no matter how pretty you try to make it
    ; psychological theory came from wicked humanistic philosophies.”

    • Josiah Arceo says:

      A year and a half ago, the Lord told me to pursue counseling. So in my mind, I thought to pursue Biblical counseling first and then go to clinical counseling (largely based on psychology). After having pursued the Biblical Counseling degree from CCU, it has taken me a while to divorce myself from the idea of integrating biblical counseling and psychology. However, the more that I am exposed to the basic purpose(s) and motivations of psychology, the more I realize how lacking it is and even more dangerous is how it colors reality in different colors. I’m glad that there are believers who are willing to look foolish to the world to direct people to the one who can truly save and satisfy their souls.

  • Anne Marie Maguire says:

    Thanks Jeff for making this podcast it’s a good reminder, warning of what’s going on in Churches. Turning from dependence upon God to man theories about how we can fix ourselves- forsaking the wonderful counselor.
    So beautiful to, to have the scriptures that talk about these issues, these equip us to equip others.
    I pray God would give me strength to speak when he opens an opportunity.

    It is true that Jesus is all the we need “.. his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness,” 2 Peter 1:3. As true Christians we must rely on Christ for all our needs and repent daily for our failure to do that!

    I felt a sense of deep conviction about getting rid of idols or gods in our lives.”Thou shalt have no other gods before me.” Exodus 20:3.
    In the modern day social media, entertainment and celebrities or even being comfortable in our abundance are the gods of our day.
    People find it easier to reach for the self help books rather than the scriptures. Due to reliance upon man’s wisdom Christians are becoming weak in their faith because they don’t see God as he really is, He’s the wonderful Counselor.

    • Margaret Deherrera says:

      Thanks for your input on the pod cast Anne, It’s sad to see how so many people are turning from relying on God to turning and relying on man theories and also relying on ourselves and what we think is true. I felt conviction also about getting rid of idols or anything we put above God. we must only have one God. To many times people find it easier to seek counsel from the world instead of being still and trusting in God’s Word and getting answers from the Holy Spirit they find it easier to get quick answers from the world, and that’s how we start loosing faith in the only one who speaks truth, and never changes is the same today, tomorrow and every day God and God’s Word it never changes.

  • JoAnn Eagle says:

    This podcast is so incredibly timely for me! I am serving in our biblical counseling ministry, and a Sister in Christ, who follows and promotes psychology, challenged me just this past Sunday with regard to not integrating psychology. She shared that they integrate and approach counseling cognitively. My responses were that we need to maintain purity of God’s word in our counsel and that the “cognitive” approach is none other than Romans 12:1-2, renewing our minds with the Word of God. She shared that she would like to have coffee and continue our discussion. I confess, I do not want to have coffee with her. I shared with the pastor that oversees my ministry that I do not want to continue the debate that highly educated men and women are having on much higher levels. My pastor encouraged me to meet with her anyway. As I listened to this podcast, I was convicted through the sharing of Proverbs 28:4. If I am a keeper of God’s Word (law), then I need to strive against those that forsake it. Thank you Pastor Jeff, for the clear and concise teaching in this podcast!

    • Abel says:

      Praying for your meeting JoAnn!
      I agree with you that our focus should be the Word of God and its purifying effect on our minds. Integrating psychology, I believe, takes away from the sufficiency of the Word. After all, from what I understand in this and previous episodes, psycology is not a true science in that theories cannot be tested in a lab or reproduced for testing but are the promotions of man’s ideas of how the brain works.
      We’ve already seen the negative effects of this from stigmatizing of post-traumatic stress as a “disorder” when in reality, there is nothing different about the person. In fact, their reaction to trauma is entirely normal and should not be made to feel different or subpar to the “rest of us”.
      All this to say, man’s wisdom is always flawed, God’s wisdom is perfect and true. I hope that whatever happens in your ministry, you continue to hold up the Bible as your standard and give glory to God always! That is what is truly important and our mission as Christians. God bless you!

    • John Eastham says:

      JoAnn – Way to go!

      1 Corinthians 16:13 says, “Watch, stand fast in the faith, be brave, be strong.” And you are doing just that!

      Syncretism is the union of different systems of thought or belief (especially in religion or philosophy). It is very subtle, so it’s easy to slide into it accidentally. It’s great to hear that you are not compromising on God’s Word.

  • Josh says:

    In regards to “Living Water’, many Old Testament passages speak of thirsting after God as ones thirsts for water. God is called the fountain of life. Only God can give us what we need to satisfy and fulfil completely and permanently.

    Just as our bodies hunger and thirst, so do our souls. often times humanity can get confused by the two different kinds of professional “help” we can receive. We would never deprive ourselves food and water for the body, so why do we do this for our spirit and soul?

    The only source of true, sustaining nourishment is Jesus Christ (the Living Word), His written Word, and His Spirit. Only these, that have been made available to us at all times, will truly satisfy our need to our hungry, thirsty souls.

  • John Eastham says:

    I’ll comment on this podcast with a very theological (and a bit tangential) theme.

    Even if we reject modern secular psychology, we Christians have really lost our focus. Christianson appropriately comments that the church has slowly and subtly lost touch with its Saviour, God (Jer 2:13), and the Word of God (2 Chron 12:1).

    Let me add that we have largely forgotten the Holy Spirit. Systematic Theology (Grudem) has only one chapter on the Holy Spirit. It’s chapter 30 and titled “The Work of the Holy Spirit.” It isn’t really a study about who the Holy Spirit is. Many concise theology books (e.g., Christian Beliefs) have no chapter about the Holy Spirit. Our theology has gotten watered down, and we’ve not realized it.

    Yet, Jesus stressed the Holy Spirit’s importance in John 14:16, 14:26, and 15:26. Further, Jesus told His disciples in John 16:7, “It is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send Him to you.”

    We’ve forgotten about the Helper, who Jesus said was so important. We’ve neglected to even acknowledge the third part of the Trinity Who is is right here to guide us.

    • Esther Ambie-Barango says:

      True John, some of us have largely forgotten the Holy Spirit and this makes us rely on the theories of man/ human theories to address the challenges of life; despising the sufficiency of Scriptures.
      John 14:16-18 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever— the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.
      Isaiah 30:21 Your ears shall hear a word behind you, saying, “This is the way, walk in it,” whenever you turn to the right hand or whenever you turn to the left.

  • Stacy Wiggins says:

    Forsaking the Lord is subtle. Too many Christians don’t think of Jesus as the Wonderful Counselor. The roots of psychology are rooted in human wickedness. the exaltation of self. As Biblical counselors, we must be cognizant of that. Pastor Jeff’s commentary on Proverbs 28:4, “those who forsake the law praise the wicked, but those who keep the law contend with them” poses a question to ponder. Is it an intentional forsaking of the Word; or is it because we are not intentional in our discipleship? Discipleship is not teaching people how to read the Bible, pray, share their faith, and give i.e. the Christianity 101 class you probably took. Discipleship is using the Word of God to help people develop a solid infrastructure of faith on which to build all matters of life and practice. Are those that lose their grip or perspective on the Scripture a result of poor discipleship? Are they getting weak in Scripture and commending psychology and integrating it in their life because they have no biblical framework to hang everything else on? Pastor Jeff’s statement, “We have to train leaders in the church. Bring them back to the Scriptures before it is too late”, is so on point!

    • Esther Ambie-Barango says:

      Thanks for your response Stacy to this week’s Podcast and I agree with your highlight of Pastor Jeff’s teaching that ‘we have to train leaders in the Church, bringing them back to the Scriptures before it’s too late’. May it never be too late for us in Jesus Name, Amen. We must seek God when He will be found according to Scriptures and I am grateful to God that I am in this class.
      Isaiah 55:6-7 Seek the Lord while He may be found, call upon Him while He is near. Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts; let him return to the Lord, and He will have mercy on him; and to our God, for He will abundantly pardon.

  • Sherra Krabbenhoft says:

    The movement of the church away from believing in the sufficiency of God and His Word is nothing new, but I would say it is certainly less subtle than it was in the past. From the beginning of time man has forsaken God. Even Adam and Eve, who literally walked with God, chose to believe the voice of the enemy over the counsel of God. For Adam and Eve there was no doubt that they believed in God, and yet they still chose to place their trust elsewhere. Today in the church we are seeing the church turn more and more away from trusting that God is sufficient and it is often very publicly done.

    • Esther Ambie-Barango says:

      Thanks for your thoughts Sherra in stating that ‘the movement of the church away from believing in the sufficiency of God and His Word is nothing new, but I would say it is certainly less subtle than it was in the past’.
      In most of our activities, it comes very glaring to us to rely on the Wonderful counselor rather than believe the theories of men or integrate the theories of men into the Scriptures for our convenience.
      Proverbs 3:5-7 Trust in the Lord with all your heart, and lean not on your own understanding; in all your ways acknowledge Him, and He shall direct your paths. Do not be wise in your own eyes; fear the Lord and depart from evil.

  • Margaret Deherrera says:

    Great pod cast by Pastor Jeff on Forsaking Our Wonderful Counselor. The overview of the church and us as Christians tend to forsake our wonderful counsel and start looking at others for counsel and we tend to form Idols in other people and things and forget to look at truth from the scriptures. I agree with how easy it is to loose track of the truth and seeking the wonderful counselor instead we look to psychological aspects for answers and start trying to lean our own understanding and others also, based off of theories instead of facts from the Word. You so many churches where they practice religion after awhile and don’t rely on The only counselor they should go to they tend to do everything just for appearances.

  • Abel says:

    This episode is the definition of our world today!
    I was so surprised to see these examples of how Israel has already gone through the pattern that we find our own country going through (2 Chronicles 12:1). If we can learn from the mistake of the past, we might be able to turn things around but there is a real enemy at work manipulating and deceiving as many as he can.

    I am glad for my church family and us here at CCU because it reminds me of God’s promise to always preserve for Himself a remnant of true believers! But this doesn’t mean we hide and try to ride it out. Far from it! Knowing the truth, we have a responsibility to speak it and shine the light of God’s Word to a dark and hurting world. As the world (and even the church) begins to turn from the Word to psychology and worldly knowledge, may we continue to unashamedly stand for our Lord Jesus!

    • Esther Ambie-Barango says:

      Thanks for your thoughts Abel as you were just on point; stating that this episode is the definition of our world today. We presently live in a Churchy world and worldly Church; despite the warnings in the Scriptures –
      1 John 2:15-17 Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—is not of the Father but is of the world. And the world is passing away, and the lust of it; but he who does the will of God abides forever.
      Psalms 34:5 They looked to Him and were radiant, and their faces were not ashamed.
      We must quickly forsake human theories and return to the Wonderful Counselor for us to enjoy divine guidance in Jesus Name, Amen.

      • Abel says:

        Amen Esther!
        It all starts with that verse you shared “their faces were not ashamed” (Psalm 34:5).
        I believe that the Word of God has such immense power for our lives and that, through it, the Holy Spirit can strengthen us for the days ahead. When we Christians are unashamed of God and His Word, when we live by that very Word and become a light to the world around us, only then do we have a positive impact on the world.
        I pray that our country would have a spiritual awakening and realize that the Bible is not just a book, but a living, life-giving cure for mankind’s predicament. And that starts with our individual lives, walking according to His standard and will in love.

  • alejandro anchondo says:

    It unfortunate that so much of the world is accepted in the church now a day’s. It really lies with the leaders. The leaders ought to be schooled in biblical truth, holding onto it, and keeping their eyes and ears open for when these things creep into the church. I know that most are listening for issues concerning heresy, false doctrine, or bad methods. But, psychology is not linked into that grouping. In fact, in my own church there are at least 5 people who studied or are studying psychology. Why? What did the former leadership say about it? Did their parents never hear these things taught to them so that they could teach their kids?
    So many young people, gifted for counseling, burdened to help others and wanting to be a blessing turn to the “accepted” form of counseling and education. Are churches not recognizing these gifts and callings and encouraging Bible Colleges and proper resources?
    We do need to train up good leaders just like Pastor Jeff said. It starts with the leaders.

    • Kathy Yohner says:

      Alejandro, your post is so spot on! If the leadership in the church remains either ignorant or misinformed about the heresies of psychology, then how will they know to protect their flock. The church leadership will continue to endorse the body of Christ to seek help from those who teach humanistic values.

    • April says:

      Very true, it also starts with us. We need to each be individually reading the word and letting the truths sink deeply into our hearts. We can lead by example right where we are! Thank you for your post.

      • Bill Hines says:

        Amen! I think Galatians 6:1-2 says it well:
        Brethren, even if anyone is caught in any trespass, you who are spiritual, restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness; each one looking to yourself, so that you too will not be tempted. 2 Bear one another’s burdens, and thereby fulfill the law of Christ.

  • >